Episode 96 – Menopause at work: what Washington State employees need to know
Menopause is a natural stage of life that affects many people thinking about retirement. Washington is one of the first states to formally address it in the workplace through an executive order from the governor. We sit down with educator and advocate Shannon to talk about what this means for state employees, why accurate information matters and how workplaces can better support employees experiencing menopause.
Episode transcript:
[music intro]
Jenny
Welcome back to Fund Your Future with DRS. So, Washington State is one of the first states to formally address menopause related issues in the workplace. And the governor recently signed an Executive Order 26-01 on this and menopause is a natural life stage, like puberty that affects all women. And it’s really great that this executive order was signed, because now it opens all sorts of doors for us to be talking about how we can support women through this transition in our lives.
And we know that health and wellness and finances are all interrelated. So we thought this would be a great topic for the podcast. And we’ve invited Shannon to talk with us to bring, kind of an awareness. And Shannon, I know that you’ll kind of give us your introduction of yourself, but welcome to the podcast.
Shannon
Thank you so much. It’s just an honor to be here with you today and discuss this really important topic. So, thank you so much for allowing me to be here today.
Jenny
Yeah. So just give me like a little brief background of yourself.
Shannon
Oh sure, I full transparency. I have got nothing but that at this age in my life, I’m 54 years old, and probably for about the last four years, I’ve noticed the most changes in my body and my mind, in my concentration and all those things. So, I really do have a passion for this season of my life, that this is nothing that’s broken in me.
This is something that’s an awareness and an awakening. And so, I can’t wait to share some more information and hopefully just educate people that this is not a scary topic. This is something that we all need to be talking about, because half of Washington State’s workforce is women. And so, we will be going through this whether or not you want to or not. It is inevitable.
Jenny
Perfect. So just to kind of start off, can you just give us a little bit of the basics of what is menopause and what also is perimenopause? Because that phrase is starting to come up in a topic a lot. And again, full transparency. I had attended a webinar recently. I think that the HCA had offered about menopause and women in the workplace, and I learned a whole ton from that as myself being in my early 40s. Yeah. So maybe if you could just give us kind of the rundown.
Shannon
Oh, that’s. Yes. Fantastic. Because, right now is the perfect time that you’re in your 40s. I wish that something like this happened while I was in my 40s, so I didn’t feel like I was kind of going crazy. My body, mind, spirit, everything just felt dysregulated. And so, it really is a transition. Perimenopause. And a lot of times there’s going to be memes and jokes about this.
They call it Perry, you know, like it’s an actual person or something. But perimenopause is coming in before menopause. Menopause, by definition, the medical world is the cessation of your period for 12 months. But what people don’t talk about is sometimes it’ll stop, start, stop, start, and then you don’t know where you’re at in the whole process.
So, perimenopause is a transition leading into menopause. It can last for several years. And that’s what makes people pucker a little bit. Like what does that mean? And truth be told, there is no one stop shop for perimenopause or menopause. Symptoms begin when women are having regular menstrual cycles, and then all of a sudden they stop. It can be disrupted sleep, it can be hot flashes, brain fog.
But it’s so much more than just hot flashes. I think we associate. I never had hot flashes, so therefore I didn’t have menopause or perimenopause, and that’s just not accurate. There can be migraine headaches, skin changes, eye vision, things, itchy ears. I mean, the list is almost you can’t believe all the things that are associated with it, but these symptoms can actually start a happening when women are in their prime of their careers.
And so that’s why this workplace issue is so important that we have this discussion now, because it’s not about us becoming less capable. It’s actually us having that awakening, and awareness of what really is happening in our body and that we are not broken.
Jenny
Excellent. I love that. I know that especially the brain fog, that was one thing that came up in that webinar that I attended. And also I learned perimenopause can start affecting women as early as in their 30s. And that was shocking to me.
Shannon
Yes. That’s the thing is that I think that it’s so difficult because as depending on when if you are lucky enough to have a pregnancy, you know, sometimes that’s later in life right now too. So, you’re dealing with the hormones of that and all of a sudden shifting hormones with estrogen. So, you just feel like you don’t know what’s happening then.
So, I’m just grateful again, like I said, that there’s more conversations about this, but again, just reiterating that this can be a time of your life that you rally, that you actually kind of get to rise above this and know what’s coming so that it doesn’t blast you like it did me. You know, like it just about knocked me off my feet.
The generation before me is like the silent generation. Nobody talked about it. So, then you kind of really start telling yourself there’s something wrong here and now for your generation there is it. There’s nothing wrong.
Jenny
It’s just a stage of life. Okay, so I think you kind of touched on it briefly, but is there anything more that you want to say about, like why has menopause remained largely invisible in workplace conversations?
Shannon
That’s a great question. I think that the easiest way to say that is it’s kind of embarrassing. It’s something that has been stigmatized as private and even something, like I said, that makes you feel broken. So why would you then want to talk about that? Because that you become very vulnerable if you start talking about that around the watercooler, so to speak.
Like is anything going on with you? Because I’m feeling a certain way. And if that woman isn’t necessarily having the same symptoms as you, then all of a sudden it can start being like, what’s going on with Shannon? She says she can’t focus at work. She, she can’t do her job. So, there’s this fear attached to this that if I’m actually vulnerable with this, then I could be labeled as something is wrong with me.
So, I think we were just never taught to talk about this. And that’s why nowadays, with social media and all the different information that’s coming out, it just makes it feel like you’re not alone. It’s actually something that will build a team better than isolate and ostracize a woman who’s going through this. You know, it really can do that.
But really, it’s been a thing where you know, anything private, anything having to do with your health. You don’t talk about that at work, you just don’t talk about it. And so now it’s becoming with this Executive Order 26-01, it’s becoming more of the forefront that we can get through this together. You know, you don’t have to quit your job.
You still have great value. We just have to figure out how to implement some things that will help you, you know, more. But I think it’s fear. And I think it’s just that stigma that people do not want to think there’s something wrong with her. There’s something broken in me. So, they just kept quiet.
Jenny
Yeah. And I think you kind of touched on a little bit too there because it can affect your work performance, like you said, like either the brain fog or feeling like, disorganized or I’ve also heard people describe it as some people experience like not being able to find the right word, like it’s on the tip of your tongue and not being able to find that right word and that that can be related to menopause and perimenopause. It’s like, people before this only just talked about the hot flashes. And so, I love that we’re talking about it.
Shannon
I recently had something like that happen even though I’m on hormone replacement therapy. And that’s the other thing too, that that is not a one stop shop for HRT, whether it’s patches, oral pellets, all the different various ways you can have that with your doctor is not a one stop shop. It literally is a tool during this season.
But I recently was talking to my friend to thank her that she sent me a water bottle in the mail and I could not think of the word water bottle. I was like, “you put your water in it. It’s, you know, the thing with your,” I mean, it took me a couple of minutes and she was like, “the water bottle?” and I’m like, oh my gosh, I literally could see it.
I was holding it. I was like, what is this thing? I mean, so it’s not just like a foreign word that you’ve never heard of. It’s like basic things that are just not grasping to the front of your mind anymore. Yeah, I totally had that experience.
Jenny
That’s funny. Thank you for sharing that. Yes. And then so just to kind of touch on the executive order for a little bit, do you want to just kind of talk a little bit about that? And what was mentioned in the executive order? We’ll obviously include a link in the podcast description. But yeah, you want to just talk about it?
Shannon
Absolutely. It was such a great thing that Governor Ferguson did by implementing that. And there was a huge team of people that, you know, brought that to the forefront, but it really recognizes that perimenopause and menopause can create a legitimate workplace challenge. And it directs the Washington State Women’s Commission. That’s the thing. This is just the very beginning, you know, so it’s not like a mandated state thing for everybody who’s employed in the state of Washington.
It really is going to go with small cabinet, agencies. They’re going to create something to review policies, which right now there are none based on menopause. So, they’re kind of creating what that’s going to look like and then identify the best practices and develop workplace guidance and training. And it’s very significant because it brings a previously overlooked workforce issue into an official statewide conversation.
And that is huge because this is not a small thing. This is something that really oh my goodness, the statistics continue to change on a daily basis I feel like but it’s like $150 billion deficit that’s happening in the workforce globally because of work loss, because of, there’s a new term called presenteeism. It’s not just being absent and calling in sick.
You’re there, but you’re not. So, you’re present, but you’re absent. And so, people aren’t recognizing that. And so that’s the greatest thing too, is that it’s really just getting all of these things organized so that employers know. But it’s definitely not for managers to feel like all of a sudden they have to be like on the lookout, you know, “does that woman have menopause?
I’m going to diagnose this.” That’s not what this is. It’s really getting accommodations. Maybe women can work at home if they’re having the symptoms that are really debilitating symptoms that can be. It’s not just about cold water and a fan. I’ll say that right now. This executive order is going to go farther and wider than we think right on paper.
So, it is definitely a workforce issue. And this is going to be great. And it creates an opportunity for agencies to become better informed and develop appropriate, consistent ways to respond to this so we don’t lose that institutional knowledge like we talked about.
Jenny
And then maybe you can just talk a little bit about what does some of those conversations that are happening between managers and employees, and how does this affect the workforce?
Shannon
Yeah, what it might look like at work. Right? We just talked about that previously that there’s no two menopausal stories that are going to be the same. You might have a little bit of brain fog. And I might have migraines so bad that I can’t even look at the screen anymore. And I’m and I have a desk job where I’m looking at a screen all day, or I’m having such debilitating hot flashes that, you know, I can’t go to work, not have clothes on.
I mean, like, you know, you’re literally just like, I’m burning up, I can’t focus. And then also what this is going to do to have the education for managers is that if there’s somebody who’s always on task, who shows up all the time, and all of a sudden HR is realizing, wow, they’ve got a lot of absent days this week and or this month, you know, and it always seems to be around a certain time, like there’s going to be just different things that they’re noticing that that person who’s always been focused is emotional at work, responds and is very reactive where they’ve been very much kind of in control of their emotions.
All of a sudden things are all over the map. So, it’s all kinds of different things that that really do affect. And like I said, the absenteeism. But the presenteeism is really a word that people are going to know. Like, yeah, she was at that meeting, but not really there, you know? They can be mistaken for disengagement. They can be mistaken for “they must have stuff going on at home.”
It could be a whole lot of stories that people are telling themselves about what’s really happening during this season. And really it is the biological, physiological things that are happening in her body. And so, again, that can manifest in many ways, but it’s so important for us to be able to know and have that unity amongst the female workers, like you’re not alone.
And we can figure out a way to make this work. You still have value because depression is also another of a huge part of this. Because when you don’t feel like you’re worth, when you don’t feel like your value is tied just to your job and things start to crumble, it can start all kinds of other things. So yeah, this executive order is more than just one more thing that male managers have to deal with is doing this much like the breastfeeding situations where they said: “hey, we need to have a room for breastfeeding moms.”
You know, this is something that it’s very timely that this is happening now. It’s a very important.
Jenny
Yeah, great. I can imagine myself kind of being in that situation where, you know, maybe I’m experiencing some brain fog at work. What would you say to women that are, you know, obviously, like you said, it’s kind of embarrassing to bring it up. And you, you think you’re just falling behind or maybe you just didn’t get a good night’s sleep before. What would you suggest for women to have that conversation with their manager if they if they feel like they’re experiencing that.
Shannon
First of all, I think it’s really important that we have great doctors in our life. And so I think that of course, we’re not wanting to self-diagnose, and we also don’t want anybody else having to do that for us. So educating yourself ahead of time as you’re like you said, 35, 40, if you’re actually starting to really listen and not just joke about this, but really like start to know your own body, but to be able to go in, it’s really hard if you haven’t been diagnosed, so to speak, with menopause or perimenopause symptoms from… it doesn’t matter, it’s your symptoms that you’re having.
So even to be able to say, honestly, “I’m not sure what’s going on, but I have something medically going on that is making it very hard for me to focus at work. I really just need to maybe speak to HR or something to find out if there’s some way. I don’t want to let anybody down on the job, but there’s some things happening medically with me and that is the truth.”
You’re not making that up. It really is. And you don’t have to say the word menopause. You know, you don’t. Eventually, I hope, and pray that this is a season where we can boldly have a t-shirt saying, “I’m in menopause and I can still do my job and do it well”, but I do need some accommodations so that I can do this well.
But I think that that’s what you can do is really saying, let’s talk about what support that you might need for this and connect you with the appropriate resources. Managers can say that, but really, it doesn’t have to be that you’re full on bawling and in their lap. And you know, “I can’t do this.” It’s really just being vulnerable and saying, like, I have something medically going on with me right now and I really need to speak.
And that’s why the HR manager training is going to be so important, because it’s nobody’s diagnosing anybody. It really is that you’re aware something’s off. “I don’t feel like myself.” More and more women that I’ve spoken to, that is what the common thing is. “I can’t put my finger on it. I just don’t feel like myself.” And that’s when that’s when we have to start acting instead of when it’s all the way at the end where you’re feeling like you’re going to quit your job and do all the things.
Jenny
Yeah. Okay. So yeah, it really is about that intervention point for women to be able to speak for themselves. I love how you said that, where it’s like, I can just say I really feel like I have something medically going on, you know. Are there any resources? Yeah. Or, you know, maybe I just need to take a couple hours or something to kind of, you know, reset or something.
Shannon
That’s the thing to I think that knowing and saying that medically going on or I have you can actually say that this is considered a health condition, believe it or not. I mean, I think that people are really sometimes you get people really minimizing this season of life. If you really understood what was happening and you compared that and this is not like a sexist thing male to female.
But really, if you actually compared, there’s nothing that a man is going to go through that really can align with what’s happening in a woman’s body during this time. It is a absolute health condition that’s disrupting sleep, concentration, all the different things, you know, and all the different systems. It affects every system of our body as we go through this.
And so, it really is a health condition. So yeah, definitely saying I’ve got something medicaly going on or a health condition that is really disrupting my work. And I really need to speak to someone about resources.
Jenny
Great. Okay. So, what would you say is one thing that you feel employers could do better about addressing this concern in the workplace?
Shannon
That’s a great question. I think that really the minute somebody is onboarded, they get a new job at the state or anywhere else to have that kind of education right in front. And that’s not something that somebody straight out of college necessarily is even thinking about. But having that be a part of the culture that you’re creating, that we understand that this is going to happen to half the workplace, this is going to happen to you or someone that you love.
And having that in the initial packet, the education piece, I feel like is vital right now to make sure that they’re doing that right off the bat, not chasing it, but having them on the front end of it.
Jenny
Excellent. And then kind of just for other resources, what would you recommend for women who are maybe in their, 30s and 40s and early 50s that are thinking about this and want to get more resources?
Shannon
I think we’re in the greatest time in American history for information. Education and information are two totally different things. I think that we can be bombarded with the negative parts of this and this gloom and doom about this kind of season. So, I would I would caution people to not just follow people for the sake of following people.
But if there’s so much information out there, but really realizing and choosing to not go down the rabbit hole of knowing that this is a debilitating thing and that there is no hope. The Menopause Society is great. There’s so many resources. Even the National Health Institute, the National Institute of Health, there’s all kinds of different resources that you can look at.
And honestly, again, knowing your provider. Any really good provider right now is going to look at your symptoms, not your labs. It’s important to get labs done all the time for sure, because this is like I said, it affects all systems of our body. But if you go in and they say, hey, yeah, your levels look fine, but you feel like you’re going crazy, you can’t just settle into that.
You have to be a proponent in your own advocate in this day and age, and there’s so much information out there. But to really look at this like it’s an attitude. It’s an attitude knowing “I’m not going to let this spiral me out of control. I really can research this.” And you know, there’s so much information out there.
Jenny
Okay. Great. Yeah. Thank you for that. I think it’s important for us to just. like you said, listen to your own body and you know yourself better than anyone else out there. And so, again, like we’ve talked about, that’s why it’s important that we’re having these conversations now and having them in the workplace and in public so that people don’t feel like it’s just in their head.
Shannon
Yeah. And that there’s not a cure all. Like I said, I think that’s really important to be like, I thought she was on the patch or I thought she was doing XYZ? Why is this still happening? Because it’s not a one stop-shop. It is not a cure all. It is like playing pin the tail on the donkey on a real donkey, you’re literally like, I mean the fact that all these hormones have to be in line and at the same time, like educating yourself that it isn’t just about estrogen, you’re going to hear that all the time. Estrogen, estrogen. It’s also about testosterone.
I didn’t know women had testosterone, if I’m being completely vulnerable. I didn’t know that before I started going through this myself. I was like, “what are you talking about?” I thought that was just a guy thing. No testosterone, progesterone, estrogen, all of those. It’s like trifecta. Those things are all moving and operating.
And so again, the education about our own bodies, it’s kind of liberating at this point in my life to be like, okay, that all makes sense. I didn’t know that that impacted my sight. I didn’t know that my skin needed this estrogen in it. And that’s why, you know, it’s dry and my hair is different and all the things.
Shannon
So yeah, the education piece is huge in advocating for yourself.
Jenny
Yeah. Is there anything else that you want to share with women who, or men, that might be listening to this podcast?
Shannon
I just think it’s great. And I honestly, I’m a huge advocate for men being educated on this as well. God bless my husband who has gone through this without, you know, we didn’t know what we were doing. And now he can speak to other men about this. He’s like, you know, she’s not crazy. There’s nothing wrong with her.
Really. This is going to pass. There’s no way of knowing how. But I think really, for women to understand that you have so much more value than what your job title and your business card says, that you bring value to your family and to your employer and to all these things. But this is not a season of having to pick up pieces of you.
It’s a rebuilding. It’s actually a rebuilding that you’re not broken, that this can be the most incredibly blessed time of your life. And also, just like moving forward and still accomplishing things and dreaming big dreams and saying that you can. Because this season quiets a lot of the noise too, and gets us out of a place of people pleasing, of doing all the things that we’ve done our whole life, of juggling all the things.
And it’s an incredible, beautiful time of our life. And with more education, more conversations, it can be normalized. And you don’t have to feel alone. And so I’m excited for this next journey. I’m excited for women with the state of Washington to really come into their power right now. Again, and not feel like they’re fading out and that they don’t have value. It’s an incredible season for all of us.
Jenny
Excellent. Well, thank you so much. I just I love your energy and I love that you’re able to, you know, approach this with excitement and really empowering women saying like, “hey, this is this is something you should be excited about” instead of before, you know, it was this conversation of like, oh, menopause. Well, you know, then you just you feel like you’re over the hill and you feel like you just like you said, I’m not of value to society anymore, but just letting people know that they can still be of value and get these concerns addressed.
Shannon
Yeah. And I think that especially for state agencies, because you guys are setting the standard for what’s going to trickle down into the private sector and everything else that it’s so important for employers to know that this is a culture of care that you’re creating. How can that be a bad thing? This is not lowering expectations.
This is not giving somebody an out. And sure, are you going to have people that take advantage of this? Of course you are in any in any realm. But what this is really doing is shifting this AI world that we live in back to the human side of the person sitting in that chair, doing the hard work, showing up every day.
It’s humanizing this experience of our life. And that’s not to minimize the fact that this has been hell for me. This season has not been fun in any way, shape or form. But I will rise above this, and I will not let this define me or take me out. But it in no way has been an easy journey, and I want to make sure that women know that
You don’t have to like this. This is not something that’s necessarily a fun season, but it doesn’t have to take you out. And employers knowing that they’re investing in a human being and that will return how we work and how we operate as women is not going to be like, oh, thank God, I can just take it easy now.
That’s not how women are wired. We are wired to do and give and serve. And this is just going to be enabling us to do more of that for our employer. So if employers take it that way and managers understand that this will be a shift in the state of Washington and nationwide. So I’m looking forward to what this does.
Jenny
Excellent. Well, thank you so much. Thank you for your insight.
Shannon
Of course. It’s my pleasure. Thank you so much.
Jenny
Yeah. Thank you.
[music outro]
Disclaimer
Thanks for listening. And now we’d love to hear from you. What topics would you like to hear about? What questions do you have for us? Send an email to drs.podcasts@drs.wa.gov that’s drs.podcasts@drs.wa.gov. The Department of Retirement Systems provides this podcast as a public service, but it’s neither a legal interpretation nor a statement of DRS policy.
References to any specific product or entity do not constitute an endorsement or recommendation. The views expressed by guests are their own, and their appearance on the program does not imply an endorsement of them or any entity they represent. Views and opinions expressed by DRS employees are those of the employees and do not necessarily reflect the view of DRS or any of its officials.
Legal Disclaimer:
EIN Presswire provides this news content "as is" without warranty of any kind. We do not accept any responsibility or liability for the accuracy, content, images, videos, licenses, completeness, legality, or reliability of the information contained in this article. If you have any complaints or copyright issues related to this article, kindly contact the author above.
